“Blessed is he who expects nothing for he shall not be disappointed”.

Pope 1727

With this in mind I quote the following from the old Irish Red and White Setter Society Rule Book.

[1] To encourage the working qualities of the breed in every possible way.

[2] Promote the breeding of them upon sound working principles.

[3] To ensure that, if they are classified at Shows, they be judged from a working standpoint.

[4] He should be strongly built, well balanced and proportioned, with a body designed for long strenuous work and a certain degree of speed.

[5] Room for brains has not been restricted to ensure narrowness of skull, and badly balanced dogs are rare in the breed, which has not developed a craze for gigantic or Lilliputian dimension.

This part of the standard was very practical for the time, as the dogs were used as intended, namely as working gun dog that produced game for the gun. A wide variety of game such as pheasant, partridge and on the moor grouse were to be had, and big falls of woodcock during the winter months. Waterfowl were pursued with gusto on the shoreline to be retrieved as always by White and Red Setter. I can testify to their ability as my own were excellent, and they did this, without training—all in a days work you could say.

 

 

The demise of the Society was brought about, as "one did not join, rather one was invited to do so". Thereby limiting membership, as older members expired, so to the demise of the dogs. Both varieties of Irish were the domain of gentry and large estates. It was forbidden for commoners to possess any type of dog, that could be used for the pursuit or netting of game. (This Law was responsible for the development of the Kerry Blue Terrier. The Kerry had the guise of a ratter, in truth was a very capable game dog, sitting to allow the net to be drawn over the covey, this before he became a show dog.) On estates, the dogs were treated better than the servants. They were allowed to roam freely, the courtyards and servants quarters on the estate. This could be one of the reasons why White and Reds do not take kindly being confined to small enclosures.

 

Incidentally I believe young pups should have total freedom up to at least 16 weeks, if not longer where possible, this allows them as they say "have a childhood" and interact with older dogs and other animal.  They mature better and are not as giddy when it comes to training. By freedom what I mean is that they are contained in large secure paddock or yard where they can roam at will, yet can not escape into the will blue yonder, and thereby acquire bad habits.

 

 

 

 

 

My introduction to gundogs and Red Setters particular began at a very early age. These reds more often than not, had the white blaze on the chest; some had it on the head also. It was taken as normal to be so marked. There pedigrees would be word of mouth, so and so's Grouse had been bred to Belle etc. (Belle was a very popular name) the dogs ability and background would be known to all. A dog with a paper pedigree would be frowned upon.

At fireside gatherings on a winter evening, the topic of conversation was the results of a greyhound meeting, or the exploits of a days fishing and shooting, of good dogs and bad one's of what breed was best. Barry's of Ballyvonair, whose White and Red's were always topic. When the old man died, the dogs died out also, this would have been back in the 1920/30. As a young boy this always fascinated me that such a thing could happen. It was not until many years later at a Snipe shoot in Co. Limerick when I met James Duhig, it was he who told me of George Bennett and his Red Setters also of a White and Red dog he had. He later introduced me to Miss Zena Bennett, who was a daughter of the said George. Miss Bennett then in her 70's very graciously allowed me to view some old paintings in her home at Kilballyowen, one of which was of a White and Red Setter owned by her family many years before. It was remarkable how alike the dog in the painting was to the dogs of the 60's and 70's. Another such painting in Dunraven castle also of a White and Red which was all white with red ears, had been painted in the late 1790's with the then Lord of the manor.

My first encounter with a White and Red was an 8 year old dog of J. McHugh's that was bred by John McManamin, from the last of the old Knockalla dogs. A nice dog showing his age, well put together, with two red ears, thumb print, a patch on either side and at the root of the tail. A good working dog, his owner being a forester, part of his working day was Grouse counting on the hill; five days a week during I spring.

My first, a bitch, was courtesy of John Nash. Her dam was Sherry and a litter sister of McHugh's dog, and registered CHARLAVILLE BEAUTY. She became the foundation of the Winnowing Kennel. Finding White and Red stud dog proved to be impossible. But in saying that, this did not mean they were not available, it was proving they were PURE                   

White and Reds or mismarked Reds, and not carrying English setter or other mixtures, which undoubtedly some were. Some matings had produced black and other markings, totally foreign to the breed. With this knowledge, the decision to use a red dog, became one of choice and made things a lot easier. Kilshannig Ranger the dog of choice, an old type red setter with outstanding game finding ability. Ranger ran at trials and was placed a few times. The resulting litter was far better than I expected. These were mismarked. One was registered as TRISTAR of excellent confirmation and type. Tristar when mated to Glenkeen Sandy (mismarked) produced amongst others two white and red bitches, Winnowing Breeze and Windy. Breeze mated to Ft.Ch. Moanruad Brendan the result was six White and Reds this was the "G" litter.

 

During this time other matings were taking place, so designed as to fix desirable features  also ensure the purity of the line. These were close inbred matings. The offspring of these litters were placed with friends and used as shooting dogs.

 

 

I had as I called them my Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson on the case, at that time, in an effort to unravel the background breeding of the dogs around Ballina, Co. Mayo. The good Dr. Watson was the owner of a famous stretch of the River Moy salmon fishery in Co. Mayo. It was amazing what information that the promise of a days fishing on such a river produced. It cleared up a lot of pedigrees and other influences other than red setters were used. Mr. Holmes on the other hand was able to track down dogs that would otherwise have gone un­noticed. One desirable bitch that I saw, was ear-marked to bring into the breeding programme, but before this happened, her owner, anxious as the bitch was about seven years old at the time, he mated her to an English setter and she producing a field trial champion, English setter, this line continued to produce champions, what more can I say - these were the problems we had to deal with at the time.

 

At this time also Mr. Willie Gaynor was researching the White and Reds and came up with very interesting facts on their background. He bred a few litters at this time. To him alone, all breeders and owners of White and Reds should be eternally grateful. Were it not for him, presenting his best young bitch to Mrs. Cuddy, which renewed her enthusiasm in the breed. Mrs. Cuddy succeeded in having this bitch registered as “Gay of Knockalla. This opened the door to others. To Willie, a special Thank You.

Many a long night we spent in Midleton with Mrs. Cuddy, on one occasion, dawn was breaking. Putting all the bits of evidence together, trying to understand what had taken place. There was only one thread linking the new to the old that we were totally certain. of.  Others were their for sure, but were not fool proof. At this stage we had at least the foundation to continue with. It has long been recognised that Red dogs with sandy hair on the backs of the legs and tail, being the dominant working line. It was not unusual for “yellow” coloured pups to turn up in litters. Then you had the “shower of hail” Setter with its white spots of 5 to 8mm in size, all over the body, the spot was pure white with no mingling of red hair (as in roan).

The White and Red on the other hand was chestnut, with no hint of dark red or black tinge to it. The contrast between pure white body and chestnut patch was very striking indeed to the eye. The white colour should not be less than a minimum 60% of the body, the remaining 40% in patches of chestnut, this maximum of 40% should not be one patch, but made up of a few such patches anywhere on the body. Combined with natural working ability, and ease of handling, would get my vote any day.

 

 

 

When we began in the 50's and 60's we had limited stock at our disposal. The few dogs that were available were like peas in a pod. Breeders should concentrate on the present standard, perfect the dogs to it, THEN and only then, should change where necessary take place. To say they are way ahead of the present standard, can mean only one thing that the present day dogs DO NOT conform to the standard, therefore should not be awarded prizes, be they show or field trial dog or bitch.

Yes we did make mistakes in our endeavour to expand the blood lines. The choice of stud dogs, unfortunately, did introduce faults, some of which were not apparent, being of a recessive nature. We were beholden to the owners and indeed very thankful, as without the use of these red and mis-marked dogs there was no way forward. The visual faults i.e. temperament (in some cases), bad fronts, high back, colour etc, within the breed was not the result of any one breeder, but of circumstance that forced breeders to use what was available.

IDSTONE writing in 1870 had this to say; "the Irish setter should be of a pure rich mahogany red, without any black fringe or mixture of another colour. He is most handsome without white, but few breeders can afford to destroy a dog of high family simply because he has a white foot, or some little mixture of that colour.

For breeding I would, if possible, and if I aimed at celebrity, select both dogs with no white, or as little as possible; but I should never put a whelp in a bucket if I could possibly find space and food for him."

 

Having said so much about his colour, let me add that some "correspondents" assert that Red and White Irish setters have been, may be, and are to be had pure, and of the highest caste, I do not doubt it. The white would be developed in larger volume by the very process I have suggested, and I have little hesitation in asserting that if there are not Red and White dogs of a breed so very remarkable for diversity of colour as all Setters are, it is a wonderful thing.

An article in one of the well known dog papers in 1837 had this report from a gentleman; "I had two puppies of the Duke of Gordon's best strain, brought direct to me from his Grace's kennels by the son of the late Lord Fife's head keeper, Mr. Donald. The colour of both was Red and White, their coats were silky. They had enormous brushes like a fox, which they swished about gaily, when hunting. Finer, steadier or grander dogs no one need wish to have. The prevailing colour of the breed was Red or Yellow and White."

Most of the old Red Setters did show white of various sizes on the chest, a blaze on the head in certain lines and sometimes white in the toes. But none of these, to my limited knowledge ever produced a White and Red setter. This would indicate that the white and red had a different mode of inheritance. The all Red dog, we now know is dominant to White and Red. But a Red setter carrying the W/R gene can go undetected for many generations, until such time when it is mated to another Red carrying the white gene. The resulting litter will contain White and Red pups. On the other side of the coin, the paring of two White and Reds will never produce a true breeding Red setter.

In to-days world of high cost, most dog owners are limited to the number of dogs they can maintain. This in its self is a drawback, because the more material at your disposal the greater your chances, and less time it take to get to the finish line. An example of this was Dr. John Salter (1841-1932), who owned 2696 dogs and bred himself 2132, among those he won 611 awards and uncounted cups and challenge trophies—over 50 years.

Theo Marples had this to say about Irish Setters: Before the era of dog shows, the dog was valued alone for his splendid sporting attributes, for his fine nose, great determination and dash, and wonderful powers of endurance. Little attention was paid to type—a term unknown in the breeding kennel—and colour was of no consequence. Irish Setters of those days were, however, all Red OR Red and White. A Red and White dog is, of course, just as good in the field as a whole Red, and there is no rational reason why the colour should not be recognised.

Sir Francis Loftus had a bitch Quail (1817). Quail was red-and-white, and this basically white dog, with large Red or Chestnut markings seems to have been favoured by Irish sportsmen.

Dr.  J. A.  Balwin, the Irish setter expert writing on the breed in "The Kennel Encyclopedia" and an article published in 1910—said "... ....in the new "Book of the

Dog" described and illustrated a white and red French spaniel, so like the White and Red Irish setter of 50 years ago i.e. 1860, as to be practically identical.

"Among the shrinking number of breeders which continued to breed Pointers as gundogs, made, to a large extent, the mistake to disregard type. But without type there is no race, and as type is being lost, the field qualities diminish likewise. This created a situation where substandard performers become a large proportion and top dogs a chance product". -Marr.

The Sportsman's Library published in 1845    ".......plenty of white about Setters is

serviceable in grouse shooting or in wide enclosures; as your enabled to see them at long distances". The Irish sports-man is, perhaps, a little to prejudice with regards to particular colours. Their dogs are either very red, or red and white OR lemon coloured, or white patched with deep chestnut: and it is necessary for them to have a black nose and a black roof to the mouth.

In the 1840's Joseph Lang, made this remark about an Irish setter that he regularly shot over "I refused forty guineas for him, and shot him a month afterwards for his bad deeds".

A painting from the 1760's or so has within it a white and red setter/spaniel that looks remarkably like the dogs of the 70's -80's.

A unique trait in white and red litters is that they produce two types of pups in one litter, one small, of good confirmation, and very well balanced, in fact a real beauty. The other tall and leggy as a pup, but mature into a very nice animal, the perfect foil for a litter mate. No matter what way they are paired, still produce the same combination. This has long been regarded as a true sign of purity within the breed.

One other note-able difference between the Irish is that ear placement on the White and Red, which is higher on the head, the ear not as long as the Red.

This mad rush we all seem to be in, to determine the "finer points" of a breed that has survived unhindered hundreds of years, in sometimes harsh conditions. This has not prevented the White and Red dog being handsome as well as useful, combining dash and spirit with gentle and playful nature. His other side is one of courage and determination to defend his master and his domain.

The White and Red when at work should always remain within range of his master, thereby allowing him ample time to reach the side of his dog, when on game.

With each litter born there is an air of excitement; that first 16 weeks is of the utmost important in the life of any pup, and the foundation for the next litter. Have I got the combination of pedigree lines right, and improved the gene pool. Time can only tell.

The following is an account of the exploits of an outing with a bitch named Tara [Tristar]. It demonstrated her wonderful ability, which is even more remarkable,

 

 

because of the foul weather conditions of the day. It is still as fresh in mind today, as if it happened yesterday.

I had a shooting friend who had been nagging me for some time for a days shooting. The arranged day turned out to be one of the wettest of winter. The morning was spent by a big log fire and drinking tea. The afternoon was not much better the rain eased a little and my friend Jimmy insisted we head out for an hour or so, rain or no rain. Off we went, pulled up on the side of the road, and opened the back of the car to let out the dog; she just stood there, nose in the air, on command she jumped down and into an intense set as if she was rooted to the spot. Jimmy began to laugh, this must be a joke, there no bird in this place. We moved into the field, which had a lot of water and clumps of rush and very little else, there certainly was no cover in which a bird would stay let alone hide in; Tara she moved along, with every step, we went the full length of this field and the next also, still no bird, we were some 70 yards in the next field, by this time the rain was just as heavy as before, we both stopped, but Tara was still as sure as ever, that she had her bird. Both Jimmy and I had enough; we turned around and began to walk away, when from behind us, up had got this wily old cock pheasant, protesting his every move, from what must have been the only dry spot of cover in the place, on such a vile day. I never doubted the dog, but we must have covered 7 or 8 hundred yards before the bird had got up. Needless to say her reputation scored from that day on. She the dog had come through so much ground with Snipe getting up from all quarters with never a sideways blink, when normally I would be shooting at them, but Tara was after her man, you could almost see the smile on her face, with "I told you so look". She always seemed to know what was expected, a flick of the hand was all she needed to guide her. Anything shoot to her was always brought to hand, including live birds.

This episode proved to me that at long last I had dogs, which I could give to anyone without fear or contradiction and state that they would work. I myself had bought well bred Setters, three in total, that were gun shy. One in particular a bitch, from a litter of eight, all of which were gun shy. Both parents were field trial winners. This trait had come down five generations from both sides of the pedigree, to manifest itself in this one litter.

The working dogs height is always a talking point. The old, adage of his shoulder reaching to the top of your knee cap [22"/56cm] and being able to hold his collar in your hand, without having to bend down [person of 5'9"/175cm]. Allowing 1" up or down would be considered the ideal.

You may already have a dog or bitch if so, obtain a copy of the breed standard, study it, and visualise its

meaning. Analyse your stock and compare them to the standard. Maybe you are going to buy a dog or bitch. To this, I would say select the best available bitch nearest to your ideal, no matter what the cost. I would say 12 months old would be a good age when you can see its potential. A perusal of its pedigree should satisfy you of its background.

Assure yourself that no hereditary faults are present.

Breeders old and new treat your bitch as a "container" of varying characteristics, some displayed; some hidden; some dominant; some recessive; some desirable; some undesirable. What you do with your "container" will make or break your best laid plans. Inbreeding is the most important tool at your disposal. Use it wisely, combine it with RUTHLESS SELECTION, one can eliminate all the undesirable features from within your own line of dogs.

Selecting for one particular feature, let say speed in a working dog, and neglecting a keen nose to go with it, one will wind up with a speed machine and nothing else, but combine the two in equal proportion, unbeatable. Like wise exaggerate, let say big head, a feature that will unbalance the over all appearance of an otherwise good dog.

An old saying and true one—

An ounce of breeding, worth a ton of feeding.

I have on more than one occasion been asked about the dogs coat and other points as well.

COAT: To show maximum life and bloom, silk like in texture, dense enough to provide adequate protection against all weather conditions, gorse, heather, moor and bog.

MUZZLE: Flecks or small spots of red permitted on muzzle, up front legs as far as elbow, and on back legs to the hock.

ROANING: Roaning on any part of the body is considered undesirable and a fault, as such should be penalised.

The definition of "roan" is chestnut mingled with white so that no one colour dominates. The English Kennel Club defines Roan as "a fine mixture of coloured hairs alternating with white hairs and Belton as "an intermingling of coloured and white hairs".

No hoof, no horse applies to the following:

HARE FOOT: The foot is like that of a hare, long, low and narrow.

CAT FOOT: Like a cat, short, round and compact. BUTTERFLY NOSE: Is spotted or parti-coloured nose. DUDLEY NOSE: Liver, yellow or flesh coloured nose. FAKING: Dyeing, staining, clipping or otherwise interfering with a dogs coat or appearance so as to hide defects.

"Handsome is as handsome does".